First, I would like to say that I enjoyed your post, burps and all. I think you made good points about guns vs women's bodies and one body vs parasites. However I would have liked to hear about a 3rd perspective. Surely there are folks in between "a fetus is never a person" and "life starts at conception," and it would have been nice to see them represented. Also I think you missed perhaps the most convincing argument in favor of "my body my choice," and that is the health of the mother. Of course we shouldn't go killing babies willy nilly, but if it comes down to one person is gonna die: baby or mother, then it should absolutely be the mothers choice.
I appreciate that you have taken the time out to listen to all of my burps as well as leave a comment. Feedback helps a lot when it comes to sharpening my analysis, so from the bottom of my heart: thank you.
The main reason why I didn't include the health of the mother argument is because they don't happen as often. I wouldn't say that I have the "best" sources to back this up, but here's what I've got:
The majority of abortions happen because the mother isn't ready, whether that be because she is having relationship issues, has no familial/community support, doesn't have the money, already has more kids than she feels she can support, doesn't want her life derailed, and the list goes on. And, by no means, are any of these reasons trivial. I'm just advocating for making better choices regarding sex - either strict adherence to one of the many effective birth control methods available to women and men, limiting sexual engagement to those you want to make babies with, abstinence, or any combination of these choices - rather than relying on abortion as a sort of safety net that enables people to be careless.
Because, after all, the baby's life matters, too.
Another reason why I excluded the health of the mother argument is because I think it's a slippery slope. Take a place with harsh abortion restrictions like Texas for example. They have an exception to their "heartbeat bill" for mothers whose lives are endangered by the pregnancy. I think most sane and fair people - especially medical professionals - who see a mother that is on the cusp of losing her life if she doesn't terminate and see that it's a valid exception and she definitely should be allowed to secure the procedure. Again, it's such a small percentage that I don't think we would be having this conversation if *this* were the only issue.
And I say it's a slippery slope because what exactly constitutes the "health of the mother"? Of course, I think most people would imagine her physical health, i.e. she faces a very real existential threat. But, what about mental health? It is, after all, a major component to living your best life. So, should we also allow women to abort on the basis of "bad mental health"? After all, the "health of the mother" is at stake here. And if we allow this, how do we determine where that line is drawn? Her pregnancy could cause her depression for any of the myriad of reasons I listed above regarding not being ready for a child.
It's kind of like when you go to a buffet and they have a "kinds under 10 get 50% off" policy. All of your kids are going to be 9 for dinner today - even the 15 year old with the budding mustache. No one's gonna make you bring birth certificates because that's rude and it's also bad customer service - you're supposed to take them at their word.
So, would the doctor also be required to take the woman at her word that she has "bad mental health," or would the doctor need to see proof?
Further still, there are plenty of testimonies and studies that show that abortions are actually not good for a women's mental health. So getting an abortion might not even be the best relief for her. And, again, in this scenario, I'd advocate for better options to relieving mental health issues like therapy and exercise.
Regarding what you said about highlighting the 3rd perspective, I'm gonna run with the assumption that you mean to say the people who argue for abortion up to the point of viability and ceasing access past that time. This is basically the pro-choice argument before it was radicalized into what it is now, which is folks fighting for the right to terminate up til birth (with rumors that some states are considering extending that to post-birth, yikes!).
And, I used to think this was fair. Women should have a few months to decide what they want to do. I wouldn't want anyone telling me what to do and I want that same respect issued to everyone else. But seeing where the pro-choice movement is today and after listening to many arguments from both sides, the pro-choice argument no longer makes sense to me. If women don't want to have a child or have an abortion, there are plenty of choices they have to avoid both:
-Use birth control as recommended
-Form partnerships rather than have one-night stands
-Don't put out to sexual partners who are unwilling to take on the consequences with them fairly
-Get to a place in life where they feel ready to accept the consequences if they do end up pregnant before they have careless sex
-Abstain
-Adoption
And, I know, this probably all seems like some sort of ultra right-wing stuff. How dare I advocate for abstinence, adoption, and personal responsibility? Right?
Oddly enough, there are plenty of libertarians who are extremely pro-life. And I think it's because they value everyone's lives - including the lives of the unborn - and because they think everyone has a right to their own property - which, is why I attempted to determine if the baby is its own entity/body in the original post because if so, then abortion is denying a baby of its own property.
I hope this rectifies the critiques you had of my post.
Aleyah I just want to say good job. Also I can't believe the hostility our society has come to. Watching that video of that girl tell the guy his mother hates him made me cringe. It just shows how oblivious and self centered our society has become. I use to be pro choice but when I became a mom I had a change of heart. I could never personally abort a baby. I've had friends and family too have abortions but they have also been mentally ill from having them. Depression and many other factors came into play after having an abortion. I think you are right though aborting a baby has become so norm that it's like oh well ill just fuck this guy if I get pregnant I can just abort the baby. But what about the babies emotions? I can't believe people are saying that babies are not alive or human until they take a breath of air. Like what? Omg even science shows this is not true lol. Im over this separation the government keeps trying to do with us as well. It's horrific how I've seen people treat each other the past couple of years over agendas. As for being responsible enough not to have a baby abd make the right choices we need to help some people with this and focus more on mental health rather than trying to keep cycles continuing in this world. Those who want abortions because they can't afford a baby or on drugs etc are in that situation because that's how they grew up. It's a cycle. Their parents didn't abort them and gave them a shitty life. Those are the cycles we need to look at and find ways to better them instead of ways to keep them going. Is abortion the answer? No I think there are so many other ways. For example having a life skills class or 2 in high school or even elementary school that teaches us about these cycles, life skills, and how to make better choices. Will this be 100% effective? Probably not but it's worth a try. Anyways love you aleyah
I 100% agree with you about the video. There are no shortage of those street interview videos from protests and they all show a very nasty (and, often times, stupid) side of society. I started watching videos like that about 3 years ago and have been hooked ever since. My goal in life is to sound absolutely nothing like those people regarding both their hostility and ignorance.
And, we're not that far apart in age, so we definitely both grew up with the pro-choice "my body, my choice" movement heavily influencing us. Up until about a couple years ago, my opinion on abortion was basically: mind your own business, live and let live. But the more debates and street interviews I watched on this topic, the more I began to see the pro-choice folks not makin' a whole lotta sense in comparison to the pro-life folks. To me, it seems like there's so many slogans and euphemisms used when discussing abortion in order to justify the action itself or to ease the guilt that women/the people pushing women to have abortions should feel.
Finally, I also think you're right about discontinuing unhealthy cycles. And I feel like your examples - financially incapable of supporting a child, being on drugs, as well as other shitty upbringings - are probably very common secondary reasons (if not primary reasons) for getting an abortion. People nowadays are quick to learn a damn Tik Tok dance but can't make the effort to do the things that'll actually benefit their lives, like getting therapy, learning skills to get better jobs, etc. I think that's the jist of the modern day.
First, I would like to say that I enjoyed your post, burps and all. I think you made good points about guns vs women's bodies and one body vs parasites. However I would have liked to hear about a 3rd perspective. Surely there are folks in between "a fetus is never a person" and "life starts at conception," and it would have been nice to see them represented. Also I think you missed perhaps the most convincing argument in favor of "my body my choice," and that is the health of the mother. Of course we shouldn't go killing babies willy nilly, but if it comes down to one person is gonna die: baby or mother, then it should absolutely be the mothers choice.
I appreciate that you have taken the time out to listen to all of my burps as well as leave a comment. Feedback helps a lot when it comes to sharpening my analysis, so from the bottom of my heart: thank you.
The main reason why I didn't include the health of the mother argument is because they don't happen as often. I wouldn't say that I have the "best" sources to back this up, but here's what I've got:
https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/
https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/psrh/2005/reasons-us-women-have-abortions-quantitative-and-qualitative-perspectives
The majority of abortions happen because the mother isn't ready, whether that be because she is having relationship issues, has no familial/community support, doesn't have the money, already has more kids than she feels she can support, doesn't want her life derailed, and the list goes on. And, by no means, are any of these reasons trivial. I'm just advocating for making better choices regarding sex - either strict adherence to one of the many effective birth control methods available to women and men, limiting sexual engagement to those you want to make babies with, abstinence, or any combination of these choices - rather than relying on abortion as a sort of safety net that enables people to be careless.
Because, after all, the baby's life matters, too.
Another reason why I excluded the health of the mother argument is because I think it's a slippery slope. Take a place with harsh abortion restrictions like Texas for example. They have an exception to their "heartbeat bill" for mothers whose lives are endangered by the pregnancy. I think most sane and fair people - especially medical professionals - who see a mother that is on the cusp of losing her life if she doesn't terminate and see that it's a valid exception and she definitely should be allowed to secure the procedure. Again, it's such a small percentage that I don't think we would be having this conversation if *this* were the only issue.
And I say it's a slippery slope because what exactly constitutes the "health of the mother"? Of course, I think most people would imagine her physical health, i.e. she faces a very real existential threat. But, what about mental health? It is, after all, a major component to living your best life. So, should we also allow women to abort on the basis of "bad mental health"? After all, the "health of the mother" is at stake here. And if we allow this, how do we determine where that line is drawn? Her pregnancy could cause her depression for any of the myriad of reasons I listed above regarding not being ready for a child.
It's kind of like when you go to a buffet and they have a "kinds under 10 get 50% off" policy. All of your kids are going to be 9 for dinner today - even the 15 year old with the budding mustache. No one's gonna make you bring birth certificates because that's rude and it's also bad customer service - you're supposed to take them at their word.
So, would the doctor also be required to take the woman at her word that she has "bad mental health," or would the doctor need to see proof?
Further still, there are plenty of testimonies and studies that show that abortions are actually not good for a women's mental health. So getting an abortion might not even be the best relief for her. And, again, in this scenario, I'd advocate for better options to relieving mental health issues like therapy and exercise.
Regarding what you said about highlighting the 3rd perspective, I'm gonna run with the assumption that you mean to say the people who argue for abortion up to the point of viability and ceasing access past that time. This is basically the pro-choice argument before it was radicalized into what it is now, which is folks fighting for the right to terminate up til birth (with rumors that some states are considering extending that to post-birth, yikes!).
And, I used to think this was fair. Women should have a few months to decide what they want to do. I wouldn't want anyone telling me what to do and I want that same respect issued to everyone else. But seeing where the pro-choice movement is today and after listening to many arguments from both sides, the pro-choice argument no longer makes sense to me. If women don't want to have a child or have an abortion, there are plenty of choices they have to avoid both:
-Use birth control as recommended
-Form partnerships rather than have one-night stands
-Don't put out to sexual partners who are unwilling to take on the consequences with them fairly
-Get to a place in life where they feel ready to accept the consequences if they do end up pregnant before they have careless sex
-Abstain
-Adoption
And, I know, this probably all seems like some sort of ultra right-wing stuff. How dare I advocate for abstinence, adoption, and personal responsibility? Right?
Oddly enough, there are plenty of libertarians who are extremely pro-life. And I think it's because they value everyone's lives - including the lives of the unborn - and because they think everyone has a right to their own property - which, is why I attempted to determine if the baby is its own entity/body in the original post because if so, then abortion is denying a baby of its own property.
I hope this rectifies the critiques you had of my post.
Stay skinny and cute.
Aleyah I just want to say good job. Also I can't believe the hostility our society has come to. Watching that video of that girl tell the guy his mother hates him made me cringe. It just shows how oblivious and self centered our society has become. I use to be pro choice but when I became a mom I had a change of heart. I could never personally abort a baby. I've had friends and family too have abortions but they have also been mentally ill from having them. Depression and many other factors came into play after having an abortion. I think you are right though aborting a baby has become so norm that it's like oh well ill just fuck this guy if I get pregnant I can just abort the baby. But what about the babies emotions? I can't believe people are saying that babies are not alive or human until they take a breath of air. Like what? Omg even science shows this is not true lol. Im over this separation the government keeps trying to do with us as well. It's horrific how I've seen people treat each other the past couple of years over agendas. As for being responsible enough not to have a baby abd make the right choices we need to help some people with this and focus more on mental health rather than trying to keep cycles continuing in this world. Those who want abortions because they can't afford a baby or on drugs etc are in that situation because that's how they grew up. It's a cycle. Their parents didn't abort them and gave them a shitty life. Those are the cycles we need to look at and find ways to better them instead of ways to keep them going. Is abortion the answer? No I think there are so many other ways. For example having a life skills class or 2 in high school or even elementary school that teaches us about these cycles, life skills, and how to make better choices. Will this be 100% effective? Probably not but it's worth a try. Anyways love you aleyah
Thanks for listening and commenting!
I 100% agree with you about the video. There are no shortage of those street interview videos from protests and they all show a very nasty (and, often times, stupid) side of society. I started watching videos like that about 3 years ago and have been hooked ever since. My goal in life is to sound absolutely nothing like those people regarding both their hostility and ignorance.
And, we're not that far apart in age, so we definitely both grew up with the pro-choice "my body, my choice" movement heavily influencing us. Up until about a couple years ago, my opinion on abortion was basically: mind your own business, live and let live. But the more debates and street interviews I watched on this topic, the more I began to see the pro-choice folks not makin' a whole lotta sense in comparison to the pro-life folks. To me, it seems like there's so many slogans and euphemisms used when discussing abortion in order to justify the action itself or to ease the guilt that women/the people pushing women to have abortions should feel.
Finally, I also think you're right about discontinuing unhealthy cycles. And I feel like your examples - financially incapable of supporting a child, being on drugs, as well as other shitty upbringings - are probably very common secondary reasons (if not primary reasons) for getting an abortion. People nowadays are quick to learn a damn Tik Tok dance but can't make the effort to do the things that'll actually benefit their lives, like getting therapy, learning skills to get better jobs, etc. I think that's the jist of the modern day.
Thanks again. Love you, too.